I originally published this post on 29 Feb 2008 – it was my second month of blogging. I have had some wonderful conversations with women around me on this issue lately, so seeing back in Feb 2008 I had only a handful of wonderful readers, I thought I would share this post again. Mainly for the fantastic thoughts and opinions in the comments – please check them out and thank you to those who contributed to the conversation.
I ended the post contemplating what I would tell my daughter and the comment from the lovely Kate @ Picklebums gave me a perfect starting place:
Maybe the line we should be telling our future women is not that they can have ‘it all’, rather that they can have ‘whatever they want’?
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Image by I’mClaude
I have seen the best seller “The Dangerous Book for Boys” in the book shops and must admit that I haven’t really taken much notice of it. It was with surprise that I read that there was also two like books on sale for girls. Peggy Orenstein writes about these books in “Girls Will Be girls” which was published in the New York Times on Feb 10 this year.
The above mentioned books are are two advice manuals aimed at girls, “The Dangerous Book for Girls” and “The Girls’ Book: How to be the Best at Everything.” and Orenstein in her article comments that both books encourage
“for girls to have it both ways: to be able to paint their nails and break them too;”.
She then follows this with:
For decades now, girls have been told that “you can do anything”. How to Be the Best at Everything, originally published in England, might as well add “in heels and lipstick.”
Now I have not read either of these books, but found that Prenstein’s critique of them drew me back to the core issue of women “having it all”.
In July 2002, a leading Australian journalist, Virginia Haussegger wrote an opinion piece in the Melbourne broadsheet, The Age titled “The sins of our feminist mothers.” Haussegger in her piece wrote about her pain of having a career and then trying late in life to have a baby and being unable to do. She expressed her anger at believing in what she felt was the myth of “having it all” as sold to her by her “feminist mothers.”
At this stage of my life, I had two children and was still getting the paper delivered daily and I eagerly watched the fall out of this article. I couldn’t wait to get the paper in the morning and head to the opinion section and see what was being said next. This was a very public forum on the issue that Orenstein is also tackling in her article in the New York Times.
The Virginia Haussegger opinion piece had tapped in to a very raw nerve amongst Australian women and it moved from just the opinion pages of the paper. “Meet Virginia, the women many love to loathe.” was one headline that came from this discussion.
For me I read this with interest and it made me think about what I had thought was possible prior to actually having children. Having my first child at 26, I had thoughts of wanting to “have it all” and I went into motherhood with a large dose of naivety. I was going to take 3 months off from my responsible job and head back to work. What was I thinking???? I did go back after 9 months, with a view to do my time and get home full time again as soon as I could. Having children is such a personal thing, that I don’t think you can ever really prepare yourself for how you may feel. I surprised myself with the ease and how happy I was to abandon my career.
But in reading the responses of the “they said “, “she said” fall out from Haussegger opinion piece, I did not think much about the future predicament of upcoming young women, I had only two sons at the time and it didn’t really enter my thoughts. Reading the piece form Orenstein in the New York Times has made me re-think this issue with a different focus. What will I tell my daughter? Will I tell her that she can have it all?
But what is having it all? I spent some time with a very smart and articulate woman yesterday, who suggested to me that the “all” is likely to be very different for each woman. What makes her “all” is operating her own successful business in a way that allows her still to have time to enjoy her beautiful children. My “all” for some years has been about being immersed in home life, but my “all” is now changing as my family grows up.
I am not sure what I will say to my daughter yet, when it comes time to talk to her about the choices she can make. I am glad though, that there have been many brave women before me that have made it possible that she does have a choice, regardless of how difficult the decisions might be to make.
I also wonder in the end if it will be my actions, not my words that will tell my daughter the most. I have chosen to be out of the paid workforce for last seven years now (but who knows where I will be in another seven!). As Possum is only four, I at least have time to plan what I will say to her on these issues.
Is this an issue that you have had to start dealing with yet? I would love to hear how you approached it.
NB. If you had trouble accessing the New York Times article, you may need to register (free and very quick) to see it properly.
31 comments...read them below or add one
OMG this is the BEST site!!! I am SO coming here EVERY day when I’ve got kiddies!
This is a great post for upcoming International Women’s Day. I am a feminist of the second and third waves. I value the work done by the first wave and I value the work done by post waves – even the Poppy Lipstick brigade.
Can women have it all? Very good question. Given that feminism is about the experiences of women, I share my own experience. I struggled with having it all. I was not good at making decisions and prioritising because of an inherent belief that I should be able to have it all. Nowadays, I just want to stay at home and blog all day, I want to be problogger – not an income earner outside of the home.
After a second divorce I had to re examine what “all” meant and what the cost of all was.
I am still feminist but I listen with both ears to what the current waves are saying….”all” means doing what suits them – if that means having babies and relying on a sole male bread winner, so be it, it is their right, their choice. While that is something I never did or entertained, darn how I wish I had their intelligence! I never enjoyed my children because I was too busy working, establishing and maintaing a career, earning money, and doing everything because I was a women, and could do everything. I put my young family second and it is my biggest regret.
Critiques suggest that modern young women have lost the struggle of our femninist history – so what, I am so over struggle. Struggle did not make it easier for me to make personal choices about putting kids in day care while I worked incredible hours and felt guilty.
I like being me now. On reflection, I didn’t like me when I tried to have it all, because the all was prescribed by a movement, rather than an internal locus of control.
Parenting is an incredibly hard job and a VERY important job. I am in awe of women who have managed to stand up to feminist pressure and stay at home to raise their kids in a non violent way. You are our future and you need celebrating.
Happy International Women’s Day to you all.
I’m thinking not. I cannot be all things to all people. Something has got to give & if you aren’t careful it might be you.
There is no way I could have worked outside the home when my kids were small. I simply wouldn’t have coped.
Thanks for sharing your experience Megan and for your warm encouragement and acceptance of women’s choices. It is experienced, rational voices like yours that need to be heard.
Happy International Women’s Day to you all as well.
Anna Quindlen, one of my favourite writers, once said something like “you can have it all, but not all at once”. She quit her successful writing career (much to the horror and dismay of feminists) to raise her children, then went back to writing at a later stage. I tend to agree with that. Not that I’ve had a great career, but that there are many stages in life, and for me, raising my children is the most important job at the for now. I’ll worry about other issues later!
Having choices is my ‘all’.
I can choose to work and to have a career, I can choose to stay with my children or I can choose to do a bit of both.
I thank the women before me, who fought so very hard for our rights. Their struggle has given me more options, but I won’t let it be an obligation.
The only obligation I have, is to the very best I can for myself and my children. Right now, my family is my all. When work fits in with our routines then that is a bonus.
I’m also a big believer in wanting what we already have, as opposed to always wanting something else.
A very thought provoking topic, in any case.
Happy International Women’s Day from us, too
I’m nodding along. My ‘all’ at the moment is definitely at home with the kids. I can’t imagine being separated from them for work and am wholeheartedly throwing myself into life at home.
I’m not sure what the future holds for me career wise. There are many years between now and when I put myself back out there, so I’m determined to make the most of every day I do have here in child-world, and if I go back to my previous work that’s fine…but sometimes I get the feeling that something else might jump out and grab me instead. What that might be remains to be seen!
My luscious daughter was born on International Women’s Day last year, so it is a date especially close to my heart. May women the world over grow closer to our goal of having enough power to excercise choice in our lives.
Hard to top Megan’s comment. She said it all.
I am a little tired of hearing about the “struggle” myself. While I am glad that we have more rights than we ever did, I think the pressure to be a “contributing” member of society can be enormous. And it’s so unnecessary.
Lazy Cow – What an apt quote from Anna Quindlen and I can see myself taking a similar path to hers.
A – I so believe that we have others to thank for having choice and we need to work with these choices so that we create the life we want.
Sister Suffragette – how gorgeous for your daughter to be born on International Women’s Day! Happy 1st birthday to her.
PreSchool Mama – I agree. I have often said that I wish women as whole were more supportive of each other what ever decision they make. The comments on this post, show me clearly that there are some fantastic women who make different choices, but also do respect those that others make, which to me is the spirit of sisterhood.
Maybe the line we should be telling our future women is not that they can have ‘it all’, rather that they can have ‘whatever they want’?
To me ‘having it all’ implies that I should want to work and have a ‘career’ that is apart from my children and my family. Right now… I don’t want that at all. I want to be at home with my children, I want my family to be my main focus right now.
What I want though, is not the same as what someone else wants, nor is it right or wrong, or better or worse. So I sort of feel implying that everyone should aspire to have everything all the time just sets us all up for failure on some level?
I don’t plan to tell my girls that they can ‘have it all’ because I am not sure anyone ever can or that it would make you happy if you did… I plan to tell them that they can have and do and be whatever they want to be whenever they want to be it. That they don’t need to be or do anything but be happy.
Thanks Kate. I think you are right, we need to encourage our daughters that they can have what they want and should not be limited by gender. They just have to work out what it is that they want!
I don’t want it all, but I want the opportunity to decide for myself which bits I want and which I don’t. I can see my daughter already going through this at 11 years of age. She is fortunate that she is a strong minded girl who will be able to sift and find the things that best suit her. The trouble with having it all is the pressure to be able to do it all well, that comes with it. Perhaps that was an issue for our generation, not the next.
This is great post, Planning Queen. Thanks for visiting my site and I’m glad I’ve finally got time to visit yours, now that we’re home again.
It is a very thought-provoking topic and something that, sadly I think, can be controversial. I have a real problem with women who champion the (original) feminist ideals (which were all about giving women choices) and then criticise women who make a CHOICE to stay at home.
I agree with Kate. I don´t plan to tell my girls they can have it all. No-one can have it all; everything we do in life involves making choices and sometimes compromises. I think its unrealistic to set our girls up like this with unattainable ideals. I´m going to tell them they can do whatever they want, but there’ll always be choices they have to make.
Just revisiting this post as I’ve been reading a wonderful novel by Dorothy Canfield called The Home-maker. It was written in 1924 but is scarily modern in its theme of what constitutes a ‘good’ mother. It seems not much has changed from that time, and her insights into the minds of mothers, fathers and even children are astonishing. I can’t recommend this book highly enough.
Lazy Cow’s last blog post..Will the paint fumes EVER disappear?
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I agree with you that your idea of having it all changes. When I first got married I wanted children and stay home to raise them. That was having it ‘all’ to me and I had it. As the children grew I needed more and after 12 years of staying home I reentered the workforce to grow again. I am now an empty nester (except for the hubby that is retired) and I still want it all – that now includes spending time with my growing family. I always have and always will want more time. I love life and fill it to the max. Is that exhausting? You bet, but I want to live every moment. I have a saying that always brings me back to center. It is “The secret of contentment is knowing how to enjoy what you have”. I enjoy my life and am content. If that changes, I will change my life in search of contentment.
Judis last blog post..Want a Free Apron?
I grew up thinking that I was entitled to ‘have it all’. My mother made sure we knew that. Women worked hard to make sure that I could have it all and thus I needed to give it a go. Pressure.
I had my wee girl, went back to work after eight weeks (while hubby became house husband)and threw myself back into my career.
Fast forward two years – She is nearly two and my doctor has prescribed anti Ds and suggested I slow down. At a week away from 40, I have, for the first time, admitted that I cannot ‘have it all’.
Or can I? I got the idea of ‘all’ mixed up somewhere along the way. I’ve cheated myself.
Over the last week, while re-assessing life, I have spent more quality time with my daughter than I have since she was born. I’ve realised that I haven’t had it all – I’ve missed too much of her and it’s time for a change.
My all is to spend the day baking, playing in the sandpit, going to the beach, smelling the flowers, rustling the leaves, reading books, laughing, giggling, hugging…..she and my husband are what I want to be my all for now – and that’s Ok. It does not mean I’ve failed.
Be careful what you think is ‘all’ – a health scare is too late.
I grew up during the feminist movement 60′s and 70′s. I have to admit it was a strong influence on me but not to the point of being supper career driven. I did not have children until later in life but not because of my career but because of my love of traveling. I even put off getting married. I was lucky, even though I waited I had my children in my forties and they are healthy and happy. I got laid off from work which turned out to be right for my family. Now I’m getting a masters and changing my career a bit, but my family is top priority. I’m not sure women can have it all but I think we can have it all at different times. I know women my age and they are so different from me and their kids are grown. I guess all of us are different and what works for one may not work for another. I just wish that staying at home with your family would be more respected as a value to the community. I think that is the big negative left from feminism, the negative view of staying home to take care of children especially when they are young.
You CAN have it all, just not all at once.
It’s all about choice and each woman has a different “all”. I went back to full time work after my first son and was met with alot of disapproval, from friends, strangers, even my family doctor. I felt very annoyed that people were so quick to judge without asking about my circumstances. I was doing what was right for my family at that time. After my second, I went back to work part-time and am really enjoying the routine we have at the moment. It works for me, both children are happy, they are loved and loving and I am a better mother from having a little break from them each week.
Recently, I decided that on top of part-time work and looking after two children, I would train for a half-marathon and take up part-time study (law). Well, it took 6weeks to almost burn out and I learnt my valuable lesson about ‘having it all’. (I dropped the law course!) Some things will just have to wait.
This is certainly a very poignant issue for women (and men) who are thinking about having a family at some stage. And it is quite likely that there is no ‘right’ answer – you have to get the balance right for yourself, for your own family.
Some of my friends have voiced similar opinions – their (teacher) mothers told them how lucky they were to have so many career options when heading off to university to study, how they wished they had had more of a choice. My friends headed off to study engineering, law, mining… and now have small children, and wish that they had teaching qualifications, as it would be a perfect job to go into when their children are young!
However, I am still grateful that we have the choice, and that it is now acceptable for men to take some time off to parent the children, while women spend time furthering their careers, if that is what they want. While there are dangers in buying into the ‘having it all’ line, we still have so many more choices that previous generations.
““You can have it all, but you can’t have it all at the same time.”" Quentin Bryce.
I think you are so right about it being different for each woman. I can’t stand it when working mothers complain that SAHM do nothing all day, and I can’t stand it when SAHM mothers complain that working mothers abandon their responsibilties. Everyone is different, and everyone needs to make different choices to suit their own needs and situations.
But I do think that woman can have it all – it just depends on your definition of what having it all means – if it means a gazzilion dollars and seven porsches then maybe not. But really that’s not what woman are (usually) talking about. I think it’s about having what makes your life fullfilled. Be that stay-at-home time with your kids, or a career, or home-schooling, or a mix of any of these. If it makes you happy, if you have meaning in your life, then you have it all
xxxCate
I tried having it “all” once. The great career, the child, the study for a Masters degree, the bickering with hubby, the “very-close-to-complete-breakdown”.
I’m probably doing it again – the business, the child, the domestic duties, the friends and networks – but this time, I’m having a great time and doing it on MY terms, not that of some overpaid male who has always been supported by his stay-at-home wife/mother of his children.
I have a great deal of respect for SAHMs. I couldn’t be one, I know that. The munchkin and I would drive each other nuts. Being a SAHM requires a higher level of patience and hands on creativity than I can muster. But I did at least get to play with the idea part-time, and I loved it. Hats off to you mums that can do it.
As for raising girls, I hope that what I see on TV, in the toyshops, and in girls’ magazines is not the reality of girls in today’s world. As a mum of a boy, and with friends with mostly boys, I do wonder if the “princess/barbie” mentality is real or just some marketing manager’s imaginings. Girls today have so many choices. That is what those “suffragettes” of the 20th century fought for. I am grateful to have the choices I have (even if they were provided in ways I did not expect). Hopefully girls of the future will have more choices as workplaces offer more flexibility for both men and women, recognising the importance of family and community in our society.
Great, thought-provoking post! The responses indicate what an important topic it is. Everyone here appears to be able to see both sides of the coin, but many times women are women’s greatest enemies. We need to support and celebrate, not accuse and blame.
My life mantra used to be ‘I want it all’ but that’s changing as I see the impact on me and my family. I’ve recently made some tough decisions that back away from having everything – I’ve made the choice to have a family and I need to be true to the mother I want to be and how I want to raise my child.
Yes, I think that saying anyone can have it all is unrealistic. I posted recently that I want to tell my daughter as she grows up, that she can’t have it all but she can choose anything she wants and work hard to get it.
I think I do have it all. And the essence of it comes Dow to the ‘all’ being in the eye of the beholder. I have a wonderful 14 month old son, an amazing husband and partner, and a job I love. I was sooo looking forward to being a ‘kept’ women, and SAHM upon the birth of my son, but after 4 months realized it wasn’t for me. I went back to work part time at first, then full time while my husband was SAHD for 3 months, and now we are both full time. We each have a night out by ourselves each week, and a date night every 2 weeks. We have amazing grandparents who each do a day of care. I work from home with my son one day. Yes our lives are very organized, and I run a very tight diary. But I’ve never been happier, my life is complete.
The way I see it is that there have been many stages to bring women to where we are now – and many more to go.
My grandmother was in the generation that had to fight try anything (even when the State demanded it of them for war effort). My mother was in the generation that then had to prove that they had respected that right by DOING everything. I saw the price she paid for that – I am so not willing to go through THAT. The sacrifices that these two generations made means that our generation now has the opportunity to try anything (again) but this time without the fight.
This does not mean we sit back and raise a toast, leaving it at that. No – our generation now has to show that we can be responsible with this opportunity, and teach the males the same thing. Previous male generations did not have the opportunity to share such responsibilities, so basically they are catching up. Not all are interested, but there are many more of our husbands doing it than our fathers or grandfathers. And again, it is due to opportunity with change.
My dream for my children’s generation is that this will become a non-issue. That they, male and female, can go to a job interview without having to negotiate work/life balance; without having to calculate if the pay is going to cover the childcare; without the issue of gender being considered with balancing family responsibilities.
And sure – there are some people out there, with no kids, who may not understand what I am on about (my best friend being one) – but my dream also includes people like them understanding the path trodden by those who struggled first.
This is something I struggle with periodically. I chose to have children young, to avoid the possibility of being left childless if I tried at a later age. The fact my mother died when I was quite young, and had a lot of trouble conceiving me in the first place also contributed to this decision.
But as it turns out, I didn’t have a career before my first child arrived, and now with my three children 7, 6 and 3, I find myself trying to establish a career, while still raising three very young children. And while I’m blessed to be able to do this at the still quite young age of 30, I feel the constant struggle, and am unable to commit to my career completely while the girls are so young.
I guess as I get older I’m no long railing at feminists that they lied when they said I could have it all, I’m realising that I CAN have it all, just not at the same time, and that I need to be patient for the next phase of my life. And THAT is a hard lesson to learn.
[...] on to say that we can have it all, just not all at the same time. I actually stumbled across a post today on Nicole Avery’s Planning with Kids that airs the same sentiments. Go check it out, [...]